Is it fair to say the world is becoming a better place? Is Christianity spreading and will it continue to spread throughout the world as Christ tells his disciples to do?
I am dying to comment on this one, but I keep having stuff come up. Let me just say that you are on to something good.
Pessimistic Eschatology has caused countless Christians to look at their world with defeat, and thus they must look at every promise of scripture as though it is something that will never be filled in time, but only in eternity.
I agree. There is room for optimism. It is largely the Dispensational eschatology that has permeated our bookstores and the conservative that has brought a sense of doom. I for one would not want to return to the Middle Ages when one corrupt church dictated ones spiritual choices. Or how about the plagues which killed over half of Europe? Or how about the fact our violent crime rate is less than half it was twenty years ago? Were those the "good ole days?" Things aren't as they "should be." But they never will be until Jesus returns, which could be very soon, or then maybe several generations in the future.
It seems like many people today are either not worried about the return of Jesus because they're sure it won't happen in their lifetime or they spend all of their time worrying about the second coming and whether they're saved or not.
I think a cursory look at history will show that the 'morality' of the world as a whole has improved consistently over the last 2000 years. With that said, many people are still suffering immensely for the faith, so as things have gotten better as a whole, there are still people on the bleeding edge of the Gospel who are experiencing incredible persecution.
I think if we zoom out and look at 2000 years of history as a whole the premil position looks weak. I am definately strongly considering that I may not have gone far enough when leaving premil for amil. I think postmil holds more water than most people think it does.
Ben- I just purchased two copies of 'Heaven Misplaced' by Doug Wilson... one of the copies is for you. Doug was the Postmil guy on the 'Evening of Eschatology' video you watched. This book is supposed to be hands down the best current resource on postmilennialism out there. Doug gets a bad rap with people because of His postmillenialism, but I have found Him to be so good on so many things.
If anyone else is interested, I'll pass my copy around when I am done with it.
muchas gracias senor. I will have to read that...right after I'm done with Sophie's World...which I am not even close to being done with. I'm not liking this summer reading, Mr Rabb.
I am currently reading Heaven Misplaced by Doug Wilson, what a refreshing book. Makes a lot of scriptures come alive. I will probably finish this in one sitting! I highly recommend It. It deals with the topic of historic optimism in the scriptures and ultimately makes the case for postmill. Very well done
So I finished over half of it tonight, it is very good. At first I thought he was falling into some universal salvation position, but that is not the case at all. This is a very good book. A little heady at times, but very well done. What I really enjoy is that he is quoting scripture from all over the place, not merely the second half of Daniel and Revelation.
Christ is reigning and He is, by His Gospel, brining all things under his authority
"Heaven Misplaced" sounds like an interesting title. I have always had a negative view of the postmil approach, largely because it became associated with the liberalism of the late 19th century and the notion that we would bring in the Kingdom, really without Christ's Second Coming. This seems ridiculous! Yet the title intrigues me, in that I think the typical evangelical viewpoint has "misplaced heaven" as some ethereal, otherwordly place. On another thought. Ben, I know the readings are difficult. But I do promise that if you stick with both books, they will give you a solid basis for better understanding some of these theological issues, as well as giving you the foundation to engage others who may be interested in Christ, but not committed to Him yet. I think that you might especially find some of the more modern philosophers of interest. I hope you stick with it!
I also have feared postmill b/c of the kingdom now movements. As well as ihop (international house of prayer) among others. A man centered postmilennial view point is dangerous.
This book however comes from a very reformed postmill view point, it is excellent and a suprisinf read. If You are a fast reader you could do it in on sitting. Few recall that Jonathan Edwards himself was postmill!
I am dying to comment on this one, but I keep having stuff come up. Let me just say that you are on to something good.
ReplyDeletePessimistic Eschatology has caused countless Christians to look at their world with defeat, and thus they must look at every promise of scripture as though it is something that will never be filled in time, but only in eternity.
I agree. There is room for optimism. It is largely the Dispensational eschatology that has permeated our bookstores and the conservative that has brought a sense of doom. I for one would not want to return to the Middle Ages when one corrupt church dictated ones spiritual choices. Or how about the plagues which killed over half of Europe? Or how about the fact our violent crime rate is less than half it was twenty years ago? Were those the "good ole days?" Things aren't as they "should be." But they never will be until Jesus returns, which could be very soon, or then maybe several generations in the future.
ReplyDeleteIt seems like many people today are either not worried about the return of Jesus because they're sure it won't happen in their lifetime or they spend all of their time worrying about the second coming and whether they're saved or not.
ReplyDeleteI think a cursory look at history will show that the 'morality' of the world as a whole has improved consistently over the last 2000 years. With that said, many people are still suffering immensely for the faith, so as things have gotten better as a whole, there are still people on the bleeding edge of the Gospel who are experiencing incredible persecution.
ReplyDeleteI think if we zoom out and look at 2000 years of history as a whole the premil position looks weak. I am definately strongly considering that I may not have gone far enough when leaving premil for amil. I think postmil holds more water than most people think it does.
Ben- I just purchased two copies of 'Heaven Misplaced' by Doug Wilson... one of the copies is for you. Doug was the Postmil guy on the 'Evening of Eschatology' video you watched. This book is supposed to be hands down the best current resource on postmilennialism out there. Doug gets a bad rap with people because of His postmillenialism, but I have found Him to be so good on so many things.
ReplyDeleteIf anyone else is interested, I'll pass my copy around when I am done with it.
muchas gracias senor. I will have to read that...right after I'm done with Sophie's World...which I am not even close to being done with. I'm not liking this summer reading, Mr Rabb.
ReplyDeleteI am currently reading Heaven Misplaced by Doug Wilson, what a refreshing book. Makes a lot of scriptures come alive. I will probably finish this in one sitting! I highly recommend It. It deals with the topic of historic optimism in the scriptures and ultimately makes the case for postmill. Very well done
ReplyDeleteExcellent. I must say I'm pretty pumped for this book..."not gonna lie".
ReplyDeleteSo I finished over half of it tonight, it is very good. At first I thought he was falling into some universal salvation position, but that is not the case at all. This is a very good book. A little heady at times, but very well done. What I really enjoy is that he is quoting scripture from all over the place, not merely the second half of Daniel and Revelation.
ReplyDeleteChrist is reigning and He is, by His Gospel, brining all things under his authority
"Heaven Misplaced" sounds like an interesting title. I have always had a negative view of the postmil approach, largely because it became associated with the liberalism of the late 19th century and the notion that we would bring in the Kingdom, really without Christ's Second Coming. This seems ridiculous! Yet the title intrigues me, in that I think the typical evangelical viewpoint has "misplaced heaven" as some ethereal, otherwordly place.
ReplyDeleteOn another thought. Ben, I know the readings are difficult. But I do promise that if you stick with both books, they will give you a solid basis for better understanding some of these theological issues, as well as giving you the foundation to engage others who may be interested in Christ, but not committed to Him yet. I think that you might especially find some of the more modern philosophers of interest. I hope you stick with it!
I also have feared postmill b/c of the kingdom now movements. As well as ihop (international house of prayer) among others. A man centered postmilennial view point is dangerous.
ReplyDeleteThis book however comes from a very reformed postmill view point, it is excellent and a suprisinf read. If You are a fast reader you could do it in on sitting. Few recall that Jonathan Edwards himself was postmill!