I thought this would be a good place to continue a side conversation that could easily develop in our first conversation, about things we presuppose to be biblical but are not.
So the comment thread on this post should be devoted to questioning certain practices that people assume to be orthodox but may not have foundation in the scripture.
I will start the questioning with the 'sinner's prayer' and the 'altar call'. Two items that seem universally excepted in evangelical circles have very little if any precedent in the scripture.
Thoughts?
I believe both the altar call and the sinner's prayer to be inventions of the early 1800s and are born out of a false premise that people must have a moment of conscious conversion to be truly Christian. Moreover it gave evangelists an opportunity to try to gauge their success.
ReplyDeleteI would contend that these two evangelistic devices have done more to give false assurance to unbelievers than anything else. You know, I went to the altar, prayed the prayer, been there done that...
These two devices have also caused unnecessary despair to genuine believers, who wonder if they were genuine enough when they prayed, or knelt at the altar.
any thoughts on this one.
Again, I would say that for the most part I agree with your perceptions on this issue. I don't see Jesus using an "altar call," nor do I read anywhere in Paul that we should "accept Jesus as our personal Savior or face the fires of hell." Nonetheless, while there has been misuse of the sinner's prayer and the altar call, it seems that God works in spite of our ignorance and weakness. He has done so repeatedly throughout history, using groups like the Catholics, who are off base in their understanding of "salvation." I find it interesting that God brought the First Great Awakening through a staunch Calvinist, and the Second Great Awakening through Finney, an extreme Arminian. When the Church seemingly became overly concerned about doctrine to the point of dogmatism, He brought about the Pentecostal revival of the early 20th century. In a similar way, He has used the formula found in the sinner's prayer and the altar call. I would wholeheartedly agree that we must be cautious in their use, for as you accurately point out they can cause "unnecessary despair to genuine believers." God bless.
ReplyDeleteGood to have your voice here!
ReplyDeleteSo many things in your comment we could talk about. I enjoy, and whole heartedly agree with your assessment of God moving in the midst of unbiblical practices. If He didn't everyone of our churches would be sunk!
Let me get into my thoughts a little more on the Altar Call and Sinner's Prayer. We know that faith comes by hearing the Gospel. When the Gospel is presented in a meeting and an unbeliever is cut to the heart. They have a change of mind, they want to be set right with God and they believe that Christ indeed has paid their price. That all happened in their seat. Then they are called to an altar to receive salvation... my point is that they were saved in their seat by the Gospel, not at the altar by their prayer.
So what is the harm in coming to the altar and saying a prayer... no harm at all IF that prayer is thanking God for the salvation He has wrought in Christ! However, it is unfortunate if we bring new converts to the altar to get saved, when salvation has already been wrought. It creates confusion, and causes new believers to associate their salvation with the prayer, and not the Gospel that saved them.
I think there is a place for the altar call, and prayer for and by those who have been newly converted by the Gospel... for sure! But let's be careful not to confuse it all.
I would have to agree with both of you. But I also think that while someone may make the decision to accept Jesus at his seat, the person won't have a specific memory to refer to so as to affirm his beliefs and salvation, because they probably didn't even realize they did accept Jesus at their seat. The alter call and sinner's prayer provides the individual with a way to remember and relive that instance when they accpeted Jesus. They can still believe that the Gospel saved them but now they just have more of a way to reassure, in a way, their salvation.
ReplyDeleteI do agree, though, that Christ should be the center of everyone's salvation. Also, that the movement and involvment of the Holy Spirit is essential to anyone's true conversion and repentance.
I would also like to say that I have experienced in past years at TCS, with some chapel services, the awkwardness that arises when a speaker calls for an alter call. There is a obligation, almost, to go down or stand up or whatever simply because everyone else is doing it. I know have felt like I would be judged by my fellow Christian classmates if I didn't respond to the alter call. It's not that I'm no longer a Christian...I'm just not feeling the Spirit move in me in a way that would cause me to respond.
I am in agreement with almost everything you said here Ben. You speak of altar calls at TCS, and I would just say be careful not to negate the message of the speakers, or the work of that message in your friends. The altar call mentality is deeply ingrained and most people invoking it are invoking it out of love, because they see it as orthodox. Again, I would affirm it is a mistake to do so, but the motive is solid.
ReplyDeleteWhat I would disagree with is that the altar call is 'good' in that it provides a person an experience that they can associate their salvation with. 'Experiences' are only as strong as our memory of them. We should be finding assurance in God's word and His present tense drawing us to Him.
But if a person recognizes the Gospel and its affect on their life through a very personal event, such as an alter call, they can use that instance as a testimony later on. The memory they have of the time when they received Jesus can be a great way for them to affirm their belief and salvation. At the same time they can also find assurance in the Word and can still draw closer to Christ.
ReplyDeleteRight, but again, I affirm that if you were saved in your seat, your testimony should bear witness to the fact that you heard the Gospel and by the Gospel you were saved. I think having an immediate experience of prayer, even confession, and profession of faith at the altar is not bad at all, or even unbiblical. The problem is when you begin to associate the altar experience more with your salvation than you do the hearing of the Gospel.
ReplyDeleteLet me explain this personally. I first received the Gospel at Chrysalis on Friday night when I was 19 after hearing a Talk on the prodigal son in Luke 15. After the talk we came to the altar to symbolically nail sin to the cross, and after that I spent time later that evening at the altar where a young man led me in the sinners prayer. I was saved when I heard the Gospel and believed. Later I served on Chrysalis teams, and realized how manufactured the entire Friday night service was. I was finding myself in sin questioning my salvation and so on. So I would look back to my salvation 'experience' and i could find no comfort in it because I knew the whole service was put on to illicit a response. Was I converted that Friday night? Yes when I heard the Gospel. What did I look to for assurance, the experience, do you see the problem? If I had a proper understanding of my conversion I could have looked back not to the experience, but to the unchanging unmanipulated Gospel to find hope of my salvation. Now that I understand my conversion as an in the pew conversion, whenever I am in the midst of struggle I do not need to try to jog my memory for an experience, I just go back to the Gospel for my hope.
My testimony is that I heard the Gospel, and by the Gospel I was given faith, repentance, and salvation.
I also am careful with testimonies, often times I think our excitement level with testimonies is dependent more on the 'amount' of sin someone was saved from. If we knew how fallen we really were before conversion we would all see our own salvation as the greatest of salvations.
Another topic, for another time... the upsides and downsides of personal testimonies. (I am certainly not at all against personal testimony! But I do think when done improperly it leaves people like my wife who has been a believer since early childhood wondering what is wrong is with her, when instead she should see the amazing grace He has shown her by converting her early and holding her close all this time. But again, another topic for another time.)